I certainly have no desire to do that! As long as we keep our discussions civil and anti-ad hominem. I truly am enjoying the intelligent banter!

Yes, we are convinced of our beliefs, and you are convinced of yours, and with respect and love, we can explore these convictions. In the end, it will not be one word of mine that every changes a heart. Words I say may be used, but in the end, it is the Holy Spirit of God that convicts and draws people to repentance of sin. If that's not happening, no words of mine will have any effect. And I hope and pray that the love of God is evident in those words.

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him." Hebrews 11.

I do like you, Sheepamongwolves. Personally, I am not convinced of anything. This is a miserable, confusing existence filled with liars and fake people. Certainly, I am not convinced, AT ALL, that the Bible has all the answers. Then again, I commune with snakes, not poeple. Perhaps I am the Evil that the Christians need to deepen their faith.

Nope, just another imager of God who is seeking Truth.

If there is a God who is good, then He would not leave us defenseless. He would make sure that we could be convinced in our hearts of Truth. So Truth CAN BE FOUND! That is a main conviction for me. Now, to find It.

Question is, do you have a disagreement with obeying?

aritchie, one cannot obey what one has not surrendered to. Surrender and repentance come first.

I know that line Turbanhead - yes, the word pagan is essentially a category made up by the church. Much better I think to call you a polytheist or an animist. Would that be accurate?

Which is greater? Would the greater one dispel the other?

1 John 1:5 - "God is light and in Him is no darkness at all."

Alright alright, sorry I was a bit harsh. Nevertheless, I won't hear people talking shit about "pagans" without saying something back in the process. I am exactly what people would call a "pagan." If Satan is the "God" of this world, then God allowed it to happen and it would be God's responsibility. I don't understand why people cannot see this. I don't understand how "freedom" and "take back your power" is a negative thing. This is EXACTLY what we should do here!

You are! Anyhow, I will delve into your perspective!

John 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 

If Jesus did actually tell people that if they are left to their own thoughts, that they would perish, he was wrong. I would argue that if left to other people's thoughts, and other people's books, that they would annihilate their own capacity for critical thinking. A myriad of thoughts and beliefs is the best recipe for creative growth....not pigeon holing your belief system into this or that shadow filled cave.

Yes, I agree with you, my comments toward atritchie were harsh, but this is necessary at times. When Christians start attacking what they refer to as "Pagans," where do we draw the line? I am not opposed to people being "Christian" until they start this evangelistic bullshit. Believe whatever you want to believe, so as long as you are not harming others, but if you are pressed to convert others to your "faith," your faith isn't solid. Any faith that has elements of compulsion in it is not a faith, but a cult.

Is it necessary for imagers of God to need resistance in order to become like Him? Or would God, in order to have children, simply create them perfect?

Satan may be necessary in order for us to "resist him". I believe God's view of pain and ours are very different, whereas we attempt to avoid pain, while God uses pain to prune off our selfishness.

But Jesus was very clear - one cannot enter the kingdom of God without being born again. Our spirits are dead. They need a rebirth, and that only comes through repentance and accepting Christ's gift. The pruning comes after the rebirth.

And God uses pain to drive us to him. We, as infinitely selfish beings, would NEVER seek Him out unless we came to the end of ourselves first. David cried out, "My sacrifices to You are a broken and a contrite heart, which I know You will not despise."

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it." Jesus. Matthew 7.

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved." Jesus, John 10.

A myriad of thoughts and beliefs only leads to confusion, like mixing all the colours of the rainbow together and getting a dung-brown colour. Truth is firm, and fixed, and yes, narrow, but it leads to life. Truth is a Person, and has a name - His name is Jesus.